Turbos: RS6 vs GT25R vs GT28R vs K04?
02-18-2008, 11:31 AM
#31
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Not for long. ATKS4 was right about what he said as he obviously talked to Mike about it...
"AFAIK, he has the GT car torn apart right now for upgrades. Doing a 3.0 block and some other goodies. It's going to be even more of a monster."
02-18-2008, 12:40 PM
#32
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Don't want to be a sore thumb, but I don't believe RS6's will put down 500 wheel on pump gas.
If that's the case. Props. But from the few examples i've seen, RS6's on pump gas put down around the same power as RS4 k04's on race gas...~440 whp.
DAP's 550whp was also with RS6 hybrids & race gas iirc. How much do you think these RS6 hybrids cost? I can't remember if ASP's old GT25 car was 2554 or 2560 (seems like 54), but regardless nearly 500 wheel on pump gas is a very good number. Especially when you consider hybrid RS6's on race gas are only doing ~550whp. Aren't these hybrids $5000 alone?
I think you're also confusing GT25 and GT28. There are new GT2560's which are larger than the older GT2554's. Hell, there are a handful of GT25 variations. GT28R-5's are larger than GT2560R's but still slightly smaller than GT28RS's. I guess you can consider GT2560R's a GT28 variation based on turbo specs but the fact remains that 2560's will spool much sooner than a 28RS and 28R.
Anything that can flow over 30lbs/min x2 is going to give you over 500 wheel. According to this RS6 compressor map, RS6's do 18-19lbs/min each.
I've done the math and added everything up. A hybrid RS6 set up with rods to support the power, any head work (if applicable), fueling etc is VERY expensive compared to standard RS4 K04s.
Now if your argument is "GT's are wayyyy more expensive though"...well that's because the current offerings are extremely overpriced because there aren't any options. There is a new GT kit in town with headers, downpipes, inlets etc (NOT bolt on Tials) that will be priced similar to current RS6 offerings.
DAP's 550whp was also with RS6 hybrids & race gas iirc. How much do you think these RS6 hybrids cost? I can't remember if ASP's old GT25 car was 2554 or 2560 (seems like 54), but regardless nearly 500 wheel on pump gas is a very good number. Especially when you consider hybrid RS6's on race gas are only doing ~550whp. Aren't these hybrids $5000 alone?
I think you're also confusing GT25 and GT28. There are new GT2560's which are larger than the older GT2554's. Hell, there are a handful of GT25 variations. GT28R-5's are larger than GT2560R's but still slightly smaller than GT28RS's. I guess you can consider GT2560R's a GT28 variation based on turbo specs but the fact remains that 2560's will spool much sooner than a 28RS and 28R.
Anything that can flow over 30lbs/min x2 is going to give you over 500 wheel. According to this RS6 compressor map, RS6's do 18-19lbs/min each.
I've done the math and added everything up. A hybrid RS6 set up with rods to support the power, any head work (if applicable), fueling etc is VERY expensive compared to standard RS4 K04s.
Now if your argument is "GT's are wayyyy more expensive though"...well that's because the current offerings are extremely overpriced because there aren't any options. There is a new GT kit in town with headers, downpipes, inlets etc (NOT bolt on Tials) that will be priced similar to current RS6 offerings.
02-18-2008, 12:49 PM
#33
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Like I said, some people aren't aware of the "current" offerings...
If you want more info, it's as easy as shooting me over an email. If you think current RS6 pricing is reasonable, you won't after you see how much a new GT kit with hardware is costing.
In terms of GT2554 or 2560 vs. RS6. We're talking to totally different leagues. There are pros and cons to each, but GT25's will always have more benefits. You run less boost, they remain efficient (unlike 2 bar with RS6's, far out of efficiency), ball-bearings, much greater supply in general...and hell, i've seen small GT2554's trap 120 with 91 octane. So far i've seen nothing with RS6's that has truly impressed me when you consider the cost.
In regards to spool, GT2554's are damn near identical to RS6's in every way aside from the fact that you will make much more power given the same variables (engine set up and octane). Only difference being you'll be running less boost with GT's to acheive RS6 power.
In terms of GT2554 or 2560 vs. RS6. We're talking to totally different leagues. There are pros and cons to each, but GT25's will always have more benefits. You run less boost, they remain efficient (unlike 2 bar with RS6's, far out of efficiency), ball-bearings, much greater supply in general...and hell, i've seen small GT2554's trap 120 with 91 octane. So far i've seen nothing with RS6's that has truly impressed me when you consider the cost.
In regards to spool, GT2554's are damn near identical to RS6's in every way aside from the fact that you will make much more power given the same variables (engine set up and octane). Only difference being you'll be running less boost with GT's to acheive RS6 power.
02-18-2008, 12:52 PM
#34
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I don't see anything with RS6's that are proven other than dyno numbers.
$8000 is a lot of dough to shell out for an OTS kit. How much would hybrids cost? Damn near $10,000? You might as well go with VAG at that point because at least their price includes quality headers and downpipes. But like I keep mentioning, there are even better options.
02-18-2008, 01:01 PM
#35
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If you liked the way DAP's car felt, why not model your setup after his?
If you're going to drop that much $$ on an upgrade, I would seek out the nearest GT25 equipped S4 and ask the owner if you could get a ride or two in the car.
What's an extra few hundred dollars for a plane ticket when it could save you from being unhappy with a few thousand dollar investment.
What's an extra few hundred dollars for a plane ticket when it could save you from being unhappy with a few thousand dollar investment.
02-18-2008, 01:17 PM
#36
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i'd love to hear about your kit when its finished
but its not now, nor are many of the other GT kits that supposedly were in development. I've been around here too long to believe anything until I see pictures and a car on a dyno. Good luck, sir.
02-18-2008, 01:24 PM
#39
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tell that to ASP that is marketing a kit that puts down 470-500whp
Like I've said in this post a million times, its all hot air until you show me some results. I'm quoting numbers from setups that are running, not ones that are on paper. All the GT number confusion is semantics, I'm referring to kits that were assembled and tested by ASP. Obviously different setups are going to have different properties, I'm only talking about ones that are in running cars.
RS6 fueling from ASP is ~$3k iirc, Vast is selling RS6 plane janes for $3333, and if you are on the lookout, you can assemble RS6 hybrids for ~$4k afaik.
You're right, supply and demand. I welcome more supply. Always.
RS6 fueling from ASP is ~$3k iirc, Vast is selling RS6 plane janes for $3333, and if you are on the lookout, you can assemble RS6 hybrids for ~$4k afaik.
You're right, supply and demand. I welcome more supply. Always.