Vogtland coilover and Stage 3 "minus" - On track experience... (long)
04-04-2007, 07:25 PM
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Vogtland coilover and Stage 3 "minus" - On track experience... (long)
I recently had both Startup Racing's GT setup and GIAC's 3- chip on K04's. Yesterday was the first time utilizing both of these on the track.
Vogtlands:
On the street, I can't say enough good things about this suspension. It is outstanding and don't worry if you live in the Northeast... I went from a SOFTER spring and the ride/control is actually better with these stiffer coilovers. I'm getting older and can't stand bonejarring rides anymore. It's very well damped for the street and the car will actually feel "lighter and more nimble" if you can believe it with a sense that all four wheels are firmly planted.
On the track, turn in is improved slightly and when compressed, they are fine and in control. Fast transitions switching side to side through "esses" will unsettle the car and make it feel a bit floaty unless you're super smooth. My caveat on this is... I'm set at STOCK HEIGHT (on purpose). A lower center of gravity may help, but I think nothing can really help any progressive spring when it is in these transitional stages of compression. That's when I suppose it's the softest. On the other hand, the track (Lime Rock) was very rough with concrete patches they put right in the driving line at certain sections. I think these Vogtlands did a good job of keeping planted and laying down power, WOT, even when the pavement was rough. I don't think you can say that about ultra stiff setups.
Also, WOT with my increased HP used to produce a lot of lift up front which can be rather frightening... this issue is for the most part gone now. And whereas Bilsteins will make potholes and HWY gaps feel very harsh, these Vogtlands are not harsh at all which is very confidence inspiring. One positive comment I have on my old Bilsteins, however, is my impression that they are very fast reacting.
On fast sections with undulating pavement, the Vogtlands really shine and work well.
Overall, I'm very happy with them but they are like all season tires - good at a lot of things, but may not the best at any one thing. You can always swap wheel/tires from summer to winter, but it's not feasible to swap suspensions. Which means they are well matched for the S4, good at a lot of things (going through snowstorms, track events, holding four people, hauling things etc.)
If you're going from stock, a nice suspension is the best WOW mod in my opinion. I suspect many folks will still feel that way going from other aftermarket set ups to these. It all just depends on what you're looking for.
Stage 3-:
I was able to really lay down some power, even while on a short track. On the positive side, the car stayed even on the front straight with a Porsche GT3 and pulled modestly on a chipped Evo (latest gen, don't know what # it is). Don't have any more data points - since I was passing everyone ;-) Ok, skill is important, but I've been doing this for 8 years now and I never was in a situation where I passed *everyone*. That old saying that driver is 98% is just not true... ok, maybe 90%.
I am one of the few here that will likely stay "minus" unless reliability becomes an issue that is only solved by a fueling kit. I really like the stock feel below 2500 rpms and the smoothness for street driving.
Having said all of this, my oil temp was getting up to 275 degrees on a 60 deg. day. It's gotton up to 260ish on the stock ECU at track days, but never this high. Any suggestions?
Vogtlands:
On the street, I can't say enough good things about this suspension. It is outstanding and don't worry if you live in the Northeast... I went from a SOFTER spring and the ride/control is actually better with these stiffer coilovers. I'm getting older and can't stand bonejarring rides anymore. It's very well damped for the street and the car will actually feel "lighter and more nimble" if you can believe it with a sense that all four wheels are firmly planted.
On the track, turn in is improved slightly and when compressed, they are fine and in control. Fast transitions switching side to side through "esses" will unsettle the car and make it feel a bit floaty unless you're super smooth. My caveat on this is... I'm set at STOCK HEIGHT (on purpose). A lower center of gravity may help, but I think nothing can really help any progressive spring when it is in these transitional stages of compression. That's when I suppose it's the softest. On the other hand, the track (Lime Rock) was very rough with concrete patches they put right in the driving line at certain sections. I think these Vogtlands did a good job of keeping planted and laying down power, WOT, even when the pavement was rough. I don't think you can say that about ultra stiff setups.
Also, WOT with my increased HP used to produce a lot of lift up front which can be rather frightening... this issue is for the most part gone now. And whereas Bilsteins will make potholes and HWY gaps feel very harsh, these Vogtlands are not harsh at all which is very confidence inspiring. One positive comment I have on my old Bilsteins, however, is my impression that they are very fast reacting.
On fast sections with undulating pavement, the Vogtlands really shine and work well.
Overall, I'm very happy with them but they are like all season tires - good at a lot of things, but may not the best at any one thing. You can always swap wheel/tires from summer to winter, but it's not feasible to swap suspensions. Which means they are well matched for the S4, good at a lot of things (going through snowstorms, track events, holding four people, hauling things etc.)
If you're going from stock, a nice suspension is the best WOW mod in my opinion. I suspect many folks will still feel that way going from other aftermarket set ups to these. It all just depends on what you're looking for.
Stage 3-:
I was able to really lay down some power, even while on a short track. On the positive side, the car stayed even on the front straight with a Porsche GT3 and pulled modestly on a chipped Evo (latest gen, don't know what # it is). Don't have any more data points - since I was passing everyone ;-) Ok, skill is important, but I've been doing this for 8 years now and I never was in a situation where I passed *everyone*. That old saying that driver is 98% is just not true... ok, maybe 90%.
I am one of the few here that will likely stay "minus" unless reliability becomes an issue that is only solved by a fueling kit. I really like the stock feel below 2500 rpms and the smoothness for street driving.
Having said all of this, my oil temp was getting up to 275 degrees on a 60 deg. day. It's gotton up to 260ish on the stock ECU at track days, but never this high. Any suggestions?
04-04-2007, 08:14 PM
#3
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2nd, but get something cheaper. Matrix kit?
04-04-2007, 09:10 PM
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Definately get an oil cooler. I saw 300F on track with my old
stage 2+ avant, the new Stage 3+ avant has an oil cooler and I don't see over 240F, even with back to back dual driver sessions.
04-05-2007, 05:25 AM
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Have seen 275 and over on a track. Oil cooler is the best option, however if you want
to lower oil temp just a little, (10-13deg) put a cooling collar on an oil filter. Being working fine on my car for 3+years
04-05-2007, 09:43 AM
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Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, the bilstein is a high-pressure monotube so probably has...
better turn-in but, as you stated, is harsher on sharp bumps. I just ordered the GT kit myself and hope to install soon. I need relief on the city streets for daily driving.