Air box mods done today
05-20-2001, 12:07 AM
#11
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I assumed he had a 180 from the rims.....
For the 180, it wasn't even that simple to run any kind of hose directly to intake area. My new idea is to get air from another part of the car. I am still drawing a bit of warm air from my engine. Even with the extra hose. I was thinking about enclosing the entire space within the front quarter panel with termal sheets so there is no other place that the air can travel but directly to the brake vents and the intake vents.
Can you guys take some picture of the filter and how you mounted the cone filter(I'm assuming its a cone filter).
What do you guys think of my idea? I sure wish you guys were located near me so I can work with you on this project. It seems that people around here are more interested in keeping their cars stock and pure than doing mods that isn't in the books(chip, exhaust, etc).
Can you guys take some picture of the filter and how you mounted the cone filter(I'm assuming its a cone filter).
What do you guys think of my idea? I sure wish you guys were located near me so I can work with you on this project. It seems that people around here are more interested in keeping their cars stock and pure than doing mods that isn't in the books(chip, exhaust, etc).
05-20-2001, 03:57 AM
#12
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I'm a bit curious in that I have a bit of experience with aftermarket filters and ariboxes as how
you determined that the concial filter used has less area than the stock flat filter. I mistakenly thought that filter materials also were a factor in breathability. What is the difference in that factor between the two filters in question?
05-20-2001, 04:24 AM
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Ok, let me see if I can describe how you can easily run the hose . . .
You need to get the drivers front wheel off the car. Then remove the inner wheel well liner. Remove the lower grill.
Once all of that is removed, you have pretty much a straight shot from the lower grille where you have your hose up the wheel well right to the opening next to the OEM snorkel! Because Mike has the second 225 IC there, it is 100% blocked off to run anything in that area!
I will take mine apart and how you exactly what I am talking about. It just won't be today!
When we redo Mike's next weekend I will do the same thing to mine just to show you.
Did you run your hose into the engine compartment and then up near the battery? That is how we are going to end up running his, but stay as close to the IC hoses as possible.
It is hard to describe and easier wiht pics, which we would have taken if we had been successful. We will try again next weekend.
Once all of that is removed, you have pretty much a straight shot from the lower grille where you have your hose up the wheel well right to the opening next to the OEM snorkel! Because Mike has the second 225 IC there, it is 100% blocked off to run anything in that area!
I will take mine apart and how you exactly what I am talking about. It just won't be today!
When we redo Mike's next weekend I will do the same thing to mine just to show you.
Did you run your hose into the engine compartment and then up near the battery? That is how we are going to end up running his, but stay as close to the IC hoses as possible.
It is hard to describe and easier wiht pics, which we would have taken if we had been successful. We will try again next weekend.
05-20-2001, 07:26 AM
#16
Another gearhead measured it. You could do it too. It is in square feet....
"The OEM drop in K&N filter has a little under 2.5 sq ft of surface area...the OEM paper filter is about 16 sq ft and the cone...ohh ****...it's well under 2 sq ft. These people just crack me up man *sigh*
Regards,
James R."
and
"The stock box is not challenged at all...it's a sealed system using material with poor heat transfer characteristics...the velocity of the air is very high which would suggest the likelihood for significant heating is very very low. The engine displaces some ~1.8 Liters...the airbox is maybe 4~5 liters, so one can see the air in the box is renewed rather quickly...I doubt the mass of air is in there long enough to pick up more than a few degrees TOPS.
As for the ambient temp thing...well you're asking for an experiment that will never happen. The temp varies throughout the day...the humidity varies...many variables will vary that's why they're called variables ;-) The best you can do is try to plot delta over ambient...assuming the systems in question are linear this will work perfectly. Since since the part being argued...intake temp...is measured at the inlet of the turbo it would seem there are very few non-linear contributing factors to deal with. So simply running the same test on the stock box and subtracting ambient would be a perfectly valid test...I'd strike the TB temp off the graph since THAT will have non-linear components related to temps and barometric pressure and such to a much greater extent. So simply taking some new data (cause I can't find the old stock graphs) and doing the delta T over ambient a valid comparison can still be made. To argue otherwise is purely irrational when you really think about what it is that you're measuring and how you measure it.
BTW - None of my graphs come from using the ****ty VAG I used a computer controlled 5 channel datalogger...well actually 6 but the 6th is a cal channel for the other 5...this is far more accurate than the sensors on the car.
Regards,
James R."
Regards,
James R."
and
"The stock box is not challenged at all...it's a sealed system using material with poor heat transfer characteristics...the velocity of the air is very high which would suggest the likelihood for significant heating is very very low. The engine displaces some ~1.8 Liters...the airbox is maybe 4~5 liters, so one can see the air in the box is renewed rather quickly...I doubt the mass of air is in there long enough to pick up more than a few degrees TOPS.
As for the ambient temp thing...well you're asking for an experiment that will never happen. The temp varies throughout the day...the humidity varies...many variables will vary that's why they're called variables ;-) The best you can do is try to plot delta over ambient...assuming the systems in question are linear this will work perfectly. Since since the part being argued...intake temp...is measured at the inlet of the turbo it would seem there are very few non-linear contributing factors to deal with. So simply running the same test on the stock box and subtracting ambient would be a perfectly valid test...I'd strike the TB temp off the graph since THAT will have non-linear components related to temps and barometric pressure and such to a much greater extent. So simply taking some new data (cause I can't find the old stock graphs) and doing the delta T over ambient a valid comparison can still be made. To argue otherwise is purely irrational when you really think about what it is that you're measuring and how you measure it.
BTW - None of my graphs come from using the ****ty VAG I used a computer controlled 5 channel datalogger...well actually 6 but the 6th is a cal channel for the other 5...this is far more accurate than the sensors on the car.
Regards,
James R."
05-20-2001, 10:14 AM
#18
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I would still be curious how he calculated an inverted cone?
The standard rectangluar filter is easy to calculate but an inverted cone where the diameter is not constant AND the inside material from the inverted cone, that would be more diffucult. Did he have a formula or did he just take it apart and measure it with a ruler?
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