Compare and Contrast, if you will...
12-03-1999, 05:22 PM
#1
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Compare and Contrast, if you will...
So I am about 80% sold on ordering a 225Q and waiting until June for it. The other 20% leans toward a ...gasp... BMW M3. Slightly used, of course. Just enough to insure that cost is not a factor in which way I go. So? Well?
I love the Quattro, but the option of carrying more than one passenger is not insignificant. I hear they both drive like pissers, but, I'm sure, very differently. (I haven't driven either one yet) So? Well? I thank you for your responses.
I love the Quattro, but the option of carrying more than one passenger is not insignificant. I hear they both drive like pissers, but, I'm sure, very differently. (I haven't driven either one yet) So? Well? I thank you for your responses.
12-03-1999, 05:38 PM
#2
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Driven all three...
I'd say that the 225Q is the superior car here. The 180Q would be last, and the ///M3 (presuming we're talking about a well cared-for E36 coupe) would sit in the middle. A thoughtfully prepared Dinan or euro Schnitzer car would push the ///M3 to the top of the list. A 225Q with goodies would push the 225Q to the "must buy" column. Not hard to find a good ///M3 for $40,000, which is the pricepoint for the 225Q.
I am not at all convinced that either is an "only car", though I know people who own both as "only cars". The ///M3 is unfit for snowtime operation when the driver is tired, late to the airport, and screaming on the telephone at the same time, as are all cars, in my view (though not from some perspectives apparently...)
Both take some moderate amount of skill to drive well. The linkage on the ///M3 is hands-down superior to the five-speed in the TT, and superior to the six-speed in the 225Q though the 225Q wins back points with the extra ratio. The ///M3 has more comfortable seats, but the TT has a better stock stereo (presuming Bose). The ///M3 has better steering feel. The TT has far superior build quality. The ///M3 is built by Germans. The TT is built by Hungarians. The TT has more usable storage space with the seats folded down than the ///M3 has with the seats up. With both cars set up for storage, it's more a matter of the shape of the storage area than the volume. Both cars are sporting enough to easily outrun the traction provided by their factory tires, both have good lighting systems, neither has luxury features like the following in North American trim (some of which are available overseas):
three-mirror autodimming
heated steering wheel
trunk lockout if driver door opened with valet key
ignition lockout if key transmitter doesn't match index of codes
adjustable pedal positions
there are a couple other things I'd like to see on these cars...
Anyway, both are solid cars. The ///M3 outhandles the TT stock, but tuned it's a matter of how much money you'd like to throw at the project for a serious suspension.
It's your $40k, you're the one hooked on German sports cars. "Who would like to get hooked on BMW's and Audis and NOT become a millionaire?" asks Mr. Philbin...
Cameron
I am not at all convinced that either is an "only car", though I know people who own both as "only cars". The ///M3 is unfit for snowtime operation when the driver is tired, late to the airport, and screaming on the telephone at the same time, as are all cars, in my view (though not from some perspectives apparently...)
Both take some moderate amount of skill to drive well. The linkage on the ///M3 is hands-down superior to the five-speed in the TT, and superior to the six-speed in the 225Q though the 225Q wins back points with the extra ratio. The ///M3 has more comfortable seats, but the TT has a better stock stereo (presuming Bose). The ///M3 has better steering feel. The TT has far superior build quality. The ///M3 is built by Germans. The TT is built by Hungarians. The TT has more usable storage space with the seats folded down than the ///M3 has with the seats up. With both cars set up for storage, it's more a matter of the shape of the storage area than the volume. Both cars are sporting enough to easily outrun the traction provided by their factory tires, both have good lighting systems, neither has luxury features like the following in North American trim (some of which are available overseas):
three-mirror autodimming
heated steering wheel
trunk lockout if driver door opened with valet key
ignition lockout if key transmitter doesn't match index of codes
adjustable pedal positions
there are a couple other things I'd like to see on these cars...
Anyway, both are solid cars. The ///M3 outhandles the TT stock, but tuned it's a matter of how much money you'd like to throw at the project for a serious suspension.
It's your $40k, you're the one hooked on German sports cars. "Who would like to get hooked on BMW's and Audis and NOT become a millionaire?" asks Mr. Philbin...
Cameron
12-03-1999, 06:14 PM
#3
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Re: Driven all three...
Thanks for your thoughts, Cameron. For me, this car will be an "only car". Also, after incurring the purchase price, and given my particular performance requirements, I cannot imagine getting to far into additional engine or suspension tuning. Do you still put the 225Q first?
12-03-1999, 06:20 PM
#4
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Yes, but only because (more)
1) I favor having a current body style as opposed to a dated body style.
2) The build quality is far superior.
3) The ///M3 is the last sports car to get a six-speed (NSX, 911, 540i, F355, TT, S2000, Miata, Viper, Vette, DB7, Camaro) and you shouldn't be "the last on the block" simply because of BMW overlooking this important feature
4) E36 ///M3's with xenons and in good condition are few and far between on the used market. In my opinion, there's no going back to halogens. My 1997 A4 didn't come with xenons, which disappointed me so much that I felt they needed to be retrofitted as a safety option.
5) The TT is a new car, versus a used ///M3.
Cameron
2) The build quality is far superior.
3) The ///M3 is the last sports car to get a six-speed (NSX, 911, 540i, F355, TT, S2000, Miata, Viper, Vette, DB7, Camaro) and you shouldn't be "the last on the block" simply because of BMW overlooking this important feature
4) E36 ///M3's with xenons and in good condition are few and far between on the used market. In my opinion, there's no going back to halogens. My 1997 A4 didn't come with xenons, which disappointed me so much that I felt they needed to be retrofitted as a safety option.
5) The TT is a new car, versus a used ///M3.
Cameron
12-03-1999, 07:37 PM
#6
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Re: Compare and Contrast, if you will...
I currently own a '99 M3/2, and have driven a 180fwd and 180q. My wife is on the tt list at the local dealer. I obviously haven't driven a 225/q, but can comment on the cars...
Given all of the perf numbers I've seen on the 225/q released in europe:
- handling: m3, unless it's wet, then i'd go w/the tt
- accel: stock/stock: m3. the m3 is super fast for 240hp...
- braking: probably a draw.
- build quality: probably tt. i think the m3 is well built as well, but you see things like much tighter bodyline gaps on the tt. the interior quality of the tt is much better than the m3.
- styling: well, subjective. the tt is beautiful. the e36 coupe has proven to age very gracefully, and will probably continue to.
- drivetrain/linkage: m3. can't beat the direct shift linkage (versus cables)
- steering feel: m3
- back seats: m3. the tt has a bit of a plus in the hatchback, but it's so small...
- something to watch: headroom on the e36 coupe is really tight compared w/the tt, unless you order w/o the sunroof, which i did.
someone else commented on the stereos: i find the optional hk bmw stereo superior to the audi bose.
something that is tough to quantify, but the first thing i notice when i got into the tt & drove off was how much the controls felt like my ex gti-vr6. the golf platform roots can't help but show through a bit.
both great cars. i think the m3 will be a performance benchmark for quite some time. the tt will be a styling benchmark. not that it doesn't perform...
just $.02
Scott.
'99 M3/2
'98 A4 30v/qms
Given all of the perf numbers I've seen on the 225/q released in europe:
- handling: m3, unless it's wet, then i'd go w/the tt
- accel: stock/stock: m3. the m3 is super fast for 240hp...
- braking: probably a draw.
- build quality: probably tt. i think the m3 is well built as well, but you see things like much tighter bodyline gaps on the tt. the interior quality of the tt is much better than the m3.
- styling: well, subjective. the tt is beautiful. the e36 coupe has proven to age very gracefully, and will probably continue to.
- drivetrain/linkage: m3. can't beat the direct shift linkage (versus cables)
- steering feel: m3
- back seats: m3. the tt has a bit of a plus in the hatchback, but it's so small...
- something to watch: headroom on the e36 coupe is really tight compared w/the tt, unless you order w/o the sunroof, which i did.
someone else commented on the stereos: i find the optional hk bmw stereo superior to the audi bose.
something that is tough to quantify, but the first thing i notice when i got into the tt & drove off was how much the controls felt like my ex gti-vr6. the golf platform roots can't help but show through a bit.
both great cars. i think the m3 will be a performance benchmark for quite some time. the tt will be a styling benchmark. not that it doesn't perform...
just $.02
Scott.
'99 M3/2
'98 A4 30v/qms
(nt)