Flying Wheel Saga Solved (long)
12-30-2008, 08:30 PM
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Flying Wheel Saga Solved (long)
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/77447/ecs_10mm_spacer.jpg"></center><p>Some of you may recall the *mishap* that occurred on my way home from TT East last summer. The driver's side front wheel came off at 65 mph. Details at:
https://forums.audiworld.com/tt/threads/453655.phtml#1783517
Initially after the incident, I assumed that I must have forgotten to torque the lugs after mounting rims 2 weeks earlier. Felt like a real dumb-***, though at least a lucky one. Awhile later, physical evidence indicates a hardware problem alone caused this. Here is the story.....
After limping home on the spare, Fat Fives with snow tires were mounted and the remaining three SSR rims were put away. Did I mention that SSR stopped making the GT7s right after I bought these four rims? That is a story for another day.
The following weekend, I discovered that the right front rim had the 10mm ECS spacer stuck to it. I mean REALLY stuck to it! It should simply slip off the rim. In fact a gear puller was needed in order to free it. Once the spacer was removed, a few clues were apparent.
Note the chewed up finish at the hub's surfaces. This is where the rim's centering ring contacts the spacer. In order for this to happen, the ring (and rim) must have slid in and out, hammering their way into the hub. This means that the rim HAD NEVER MADE flush contact with the spacer face. See the white marks around the perimeter? That is where the rim's five faces made contact. Apparently, these marks were also caused by the rim hammering the spacer.
So while the lugs were properly torqued before leaving home, the rim eventually moved further inward and then back outward during 2000 miles of driving. That is how the lugs got loose and eventually fell out at speed. The left side spacer disappeared with the SSR rim to an Indiana cornfield. Maybe it will show up in some kid's Kracker Jacks.
Why did this happen?
Who screwed up?
Plenty of blame to go around, IMHO.
The spacer design is flawed by having a stepped hub lip. This prevented the rim from seating in the first place.
Of course the spacer designer could say that the rim design is incompatible.
The rim's spacer ring should have sat further back into the rim.
Other Forum posters had warned about the need to "slightly grind" the interior perimeter of the centering ring so it would slip a tad closer to the step.
I went ahead and "modded" the centering ring with a Dremel tool to do just that.
Hardly precision machining.
Lessons learned:
1. Be careful when you mod your ride! You are ultimately responsible for your own safety.
2. Be very suspicious of non-OEM equipment where failure = catastrophic consequences. Reference - Jesus bolt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_nut
3. The torque wrench is your friend. Use it often.
Oh, one more potential contributing factor....
I had used a *tiny* amount of anti-seize on the first few threads of each lug. Anyone have any problems with anti-seize?
NOTE: The lugs were about 5mm longer than ideal since they were procured with 15mm H&R spacers. Soon switched to 10mm spacers due to liner rubbing issues, but kept the long lugs. So lug length was not a factor.
https://forums.audiworld.com/tt/threads/453655.phtml#1783517
Initially after the incident, I assumed that I must have forgotten to torque the lugs after mounting rims 2 weeks earlier. Felt like a real dumb-***, though at least a lucky one. Awhile later, physical evidence indicates a hardware problem alone caused this. Here is the story.....
After limping home on the spare, Fat Fives with snow tires were mounted and the remaining three SSR rims were put away. Did I mention that SSR stopped making the GT7s right after I bought these four rims? That is a story for another day.
The following weekend, I discovered that the right front rim had the 10mm ECS spacer stuck to it. I mean REALLY stuck to it! It should simply slip off the rim. In fact a gear puller was needed in order to free it. Once the spacer was removed, a few clues were apparent.
Note the chewed up finish at the hub's surfaces. This is where the rim's centering ring contacts the spacer. In order for this to happen, the ring (and rim) must have slid in and out, hammering their way into the hub. This means that the rim HAD NEVER MADE flush contact with the spacer face. See the white marks around the perimeter? That is where the rim's five faces made contact. Apparently, these marks were also caused by the rim hammering the spacer.
So while the lugs were properly torqued before leaving home, the rim eventually moved further inward and then back outward during 2000 miles of driving. That is how the lugs got loose and eventually fell out at speed. The left side spacer disappeared with the SSR rim to an Indiana cornfield. Maybe it will show up in some kid's Kracker Jacks.
Why did this happen?
Who screwed up?
Plenty of blame to go around, IMHO.
The spacer design is flawed by having a stepped hub lip. This prevented the rim from seating in the first place.
Of course the spacer designer could say that the rim design is incompatible.
The rim's spacer ring should have sat further back into the rim.
Other Forum posters had warned about the need to "slightly grind" the interior perimeter of the centering ring so it would slip a tad closer to the step.
I went ahead and "modded" the centering ring with a Dremel tool to do just that.
Hardly precision machining.
Lessons learned:
1. Be careful when you mod your ride! You are ultimately responsible for your own safety.
2. Be very suspicious of non-OEM equipment where failure = catastrophic consequences. Reference - Jesus bolt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_nut
3. The torque wrench is your friend. Use it often.
Oh, one more potential contributing factor....
I had used a *tiny* amount of anti-seize on the first few threads of each lug. Anyone have any problems with anti-seize?
NOTE: The lugs were about 5mm longer than ideal since they were procured with 15mm H&R spacers. Soon switched to 10mm spacers due to liner rubbing issues, but kept the long lugs. So lug length was not a factor.
12-30-2008, 08:42 PM
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Uhm, I checked the fit before I installed mine.
Never trust anything but yourself. I fit them to the hub and checked clearance and I checked them to the back of the wheel to be sure they were flush. I've seen great shops make minor mistakes that led to major disasters.
Hope you're able to come out of this ok.
Hope you're able to come out of this ok.
12-30-2008, 09:21 PM
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Holy crap - how did I miss that post???
Jeez I guess I missed this whole story Steve - just told Jen and got a "holy $hit" from her too. We're both glad you made it home safe.
We prolly shoulda looked closer at the rest stop, eh. And to think I was more concerned with the traffic you were gonna catch - wow!
We prolly shoulda looked closer at the rest stop, eh. And to think I was more concerned with the traffic you were gonna catch - wow!
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12-31-2008, 06:12 AM
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I have those same spacers with the same GT7s... please post pics of the modding you did
mine have been on a year and they are 'stuck' to the wheel like yours was.
Did you just grind around the inside the wheels hub centering ring a bit so the spacer doesn't get stuck in it? I'm wondering if just because it is looser does that mean it's sitting more flush?
are you sure the damage to the spacer hub isn't from being stuck and then pulled free with the puller?
I think the marks on the spacer face are normal. My rears have those, John's H&R spacers with BBS wheels have those too I think.
Anti-sieze can sometimes prevent accurate torque.
Any warning before it went? Loose lugs usually cause a wobble feeling. were they loose on the other front wheel?
Did you just grind around the inside the wheels hub centering ring a bit so the spacer doesn't get stuck in it? I'm wondering if just because it is looser does that mean it's sitting more flush?
are you sure the damage to the spacer hub isn't from being stuck and then pulled free with the puller?
I think the marks on the spacer face are normal. My rears have those, John's H&R spacers with BBS wheels have those too I think.
Anti-sieze can sometimes prevent accurate torque.
Any warning before it went? Loose lugs usually cause a wobble feeling. were they loose on the other front wheel?