TT_Nuge

LTM

John J Szobocsan

produces less horsepower than a gasoline powered one. For example, the Mercedes E320 gasoline version in 2004 was rated at 221 bhp and the current E320 CDI diesel version is rated at 201 bhp. The diesel engine is turbocharged while the gasoline variant is normally aspirated. To the average consumer, diesel engines are considered to produce less horsepower per similar displacement than the gasoline counterparts.

I never compared a normally aspirated version forced induction gasoline engine of similar displacement. I was merely highlighting the technological advancements of this engine and one using an older design engine as a comparison. No one cannot deny that the Z06 is a great car with a great engine but the basic architecture of the engine dates back to the 1950s. Pushrod engines are only economically attractive and technologically attractive. GM and Ford are reluctant to make the necessary investments in R&D to take advantage of technological changes. Consider if the computer industry decided to remain wedded to cpu technologies that were developed in the 1950s.

02ALMSTT

when it comes to engine technology.

The great thing about the TDI V10 and V12 is that they still get like 26 and 20 mpg.

So your right, you can't compare them...it's not a contest. The VAG TDI wins hands down.

JohnLZ7W

Yeah pushrod is old technology.... and they keep making that leaf spring work too, kind of like Porsche with the engine in the wrong place

JohnLZ7W

First, the Touareg V10 TDI is rated at 17/23 mpg, not 26-28.

Second, the 7liter V8 in the Z06 is rated at 16/26 with 505hp. The hightest-tech V8 that Audi produces for the RS4 at 4.2liter gets 14/20 with 420hp. So who's behind in technology? Yes sure, bloated epa figures with forced skip shift technology on the vette blah blah blah.

The point is that there's a kneejerk reaction when comparing American auto tech to European auto tech and it's just not always true.

02ALMSTT

I misquoted the MPG, I thought I read it at 26, but I went back to my source and it is indeed 23.

But let's put things into perspective on a platform to platform comparison. (To also eliminate the superior aerodynamics of the 'vette as compared to the moving Box that the Tourag and Q7 are at anything over 30mph.)

My '02 GMC Envoy with the 270 hp 4.2L Vortec inline 6 get's 18mpg on the hwy if I'm lucky, even though it rated at 21mpg. (I drove it 100 miles each way to work for 6 months or so.) The new Envoy Denali's with the 300hp V8 is EPA rated at 21.

So the V10 TDI at 310hp and 23mpg is still ahead, albeit not by a huge margin.

(and we still need to take into account the ever changing Fuel compairson.)

John J Szobocsan

The markets would seem to indicate otherwise. If consumers believed that the Big3's level of technology excelled when compared to the Asians and the Europeans, the Big3 would not be suffering with bloated inventory, falling market share, and lack of profitability.

Remember that the European makers basically doubled market share in North America during the 1990s. EPA fuel economy numbers do not fully reflect the level of technology of a manufacturer. I do not believe that Audi considered benchmarking the Corvette's fuel economy when it designed the RS4. The RS4 is a heavier car with all wheel drive and this, along with gearing, has an impact on fuel economy.

JohnLZ7W

However, people throw around comparisons with either partial or incorrect facts or pick and choose the stats to compare to make their argument and that always bugs me.

John J Szobocsan

The Ford Powerstroke versus the Audi V12 TDI:

* Both are 6.0 Litre diesel engines;

* Both are turbocharged;

* Both utilize direct fuel injection;

* The Audi produces 500 bhp;

* The PSD produces 325 bhp.

I guess the winner is the Ford Powerstroke because the F250 has greater towing capacity than the Q7.

JohnLZ7W

Towing capacity is probably down to the Ford actually being a truck more than anything else.