Wennch

synthetic oil. Is there anyway to tell? Mine you know is brandie new. Also, don't you think the oil should be changed at 1000 instead of waiting for 5000 for the first and then every 4000 or 5000 after that...even with synthetic? What benefits will I derive from using synthetic. Thanks.

Wendy<p><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/wennch.gif " border="0">

TTR Kevin

1000 miles if you want your engine to consume oil for the rest of it's life. Non US Audis have a 7,500 mile first service interval, so 5000 ought to be no problem.

The big advantage of synthetic oils is that they hold up to the heat in the turbocharger better than conventional oils. So you are much less likely to plug up the turbo oil feed line as well as internal surfaces with cooked oil using synthetic.

Wennch

<p><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/wennch.gif " border="0">

TTR Kevin

even third hand evidence that waiting until 5K or even 7K is bad for these engines. One thing that has been posted, and that I would tend to believe, is that there are friction modifiers in the break in oil, that help the rings and seals seat.

Also, from what I can tell two months ago, "normal" oil for these cars is a synthetic blend, part conventional, and part synthetic. Right now I don't know what is standard issue at the dealers. I will ask when mine gets the 5K service.

My plan right now: Drive rest of the way to 5K on the initial oil fill. I don't push it the first few minutes after starting and let it run a while after the last turbo boosted use before shutting down. At 5K, the dealer can put in whatever they are currently using. Blend or full synthetic, whatever they are using. If they use a blend I will continue to be just as careful about startup/shutdown. At 10K, it will be full synthetic, even if I have to bring in my own Mobil 1. Then I will relax the startup/shutdown intervals a fair bit.

One interesting side note. I had my car in for window service at 2,200 miles. The service advisor suggested I make sure I drove the car hard at least part of the time during the first 5K. Hmmm, they don't sound too concerned about the break in oil causing damage to the engine, do they?


It does occur to me that the break in oil for regions with 7,500 mile first service interval may be different. Maybe less of the "friction modifier" to compensate for the longer run time. My service advisor gave the impression that "acceptable" first service mileage was between 4,500 and 6,000.

Larrytt

You can go and drive your car as hard as you like. if you want to follow the manual and havea 1k break-in that is fine, but after that don't worry about it.

The car comes from the factory with synthetic. The dealers ALL put in a standard motor oil that is NON-synthetic for each oil change. If you want Mobil 1 they all seem to stock it, if you want any other synthetic you need to bring it to the dealer. You will not be charged anything except the cost of the Mobil 1 itself. The oil change is still free along with the filter. You will save a few dollars if you bring in the Mobil 1 too.

I put in Mobil 1 at my first oil change and the car runs beautifully.<p><a href="http://registry.audiworld.com/audi/registry/details.asp?car=3285"><img SRC="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/ttsig.jpg" BORDER=0 alt="Click for Mods"></a>
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Larrytt

I waited until my 5k to change and I put in Mobil 1. It is up to you.

Wendy, no reason to put in "normal" oil, stick with the synthetic.

The benefits are the following:

The engine will run cooler because of the coling properties a synthetic oil possesses.

synthetic oils last longer and burn cleaner, which in turn makes the engine run cooler.

synthetics for the most part are more slippery, for lack of a better way of wording it

Natural oils break down far faster, get dirtier faster and can also burn easier. All bad things for an engine.

Their are other reasons too, just too tired to think of them . .. sorry <p><a href="http://registry.audiworld.com/audi/registry/details.asp?car=3285"><img SRC="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/ttsig.jpg" BORDER=0 alt="Click for Mods"></a>
<a HREF="http://larrytt.tripod.com">Larry's TTQ WebSite

TTR Kevin

or processes. However, if the factory oil is a full synthetic with no "break in additives" my car is destined to consume oil for the rest of it's life. Reading the dipstick in the garage when I brought it home from the dealer day one, (Ok, day 2, the car was a week early and I didn't have the garage cleared yet) the dipstick showed a hair under full. At 2,200 miles I took it in to the dealer to fix some window pinch control problems. (they replaced the motor because it would not recalibrate) Before I took it in, it was in the bottom third of the normal range. They topped it off before returning the car to me.

Slight side step here: One thing I have heard historically, in general: When synthetics were first introduced, one problem people noticed was that cars that switched to them early never really broke in. The oil rings never seated, and they never compression tested as high as they should.

Back to now: Does the oil consumption in my first 2,200 miles indicate that I will never make a 5,000 mile interval without adding oil? Or will my rings seat soon because modern synthetics are not as good as what they used to have? Maybe the rings are made out of an inferior material so they will seat correctly while using synthetic oil? I don't buy any of this. Either I am experiencing the oil consumption this car may always have, or they have thrown something into the mix to allow the rings to "wear" into a correct seating.

Also, when I picked up the car, I asked what the recommended oil was, in case I had to top it off. They suggested that I just bring it in if it ever needed any and actually said that Audi strongly recommends not changing the oil before 5,000 miles.

As far as oil types, I agree that full synthetics are far ahead of everything else. They are far less prone to cross linking and making that wonderful sludge on engine components. They carry considerably more detergents to capture chemical contaminants (water, and water borne acids) and remove any preexisting sludge. Just a couple of the items I don't remember you listing.

As far as current vs. historical practices, the differences are huge. Everything is machined to much closer tolerances. The materials are far superior. Removing manual machining steps eliminates the Monday or Friday problems. Current processes are far less likely to leave burrs behind, mill chips are less likely to be left behind in process and more likely to be cleaned out before assembly. Just those reasons alone would be reason enough for an early oil change in the 70's that don't exist today. In addition, I suspect that they used to add fine abrasives to accelerate the break in with the larger clearances they use to build.

The real bottom line question is why change your oil before 5,000 miles when Audi doesn't want you to? The way they are manufactured, the old reasons to change early don't apply. Why are we stuck with our 70's mentality that we must change the oil before the first full change interval? Especially if there is some circumstantial evidence that it might be detrimental to change early?

Larrytt

As far as a 100% synthetic being detrimental to ones engine from the get-go . . .The Corvette has been coming FROM the FACTORY with Mobil 1 for YEARS. True it is just recently that Mobil 1 became a TRUE 100% synthetic, but it does come with one now. Quite a few high performance cars come with Mobil 1 or a similar 100% synthetic motor oil.

In todays engines as you said the tolerances and machining are so good that the extra bits of metal that used to exist are not in the engines anymore. That was always the reason for an early oil change. Now changing ones oil at any interval before the 5k mark will NOT have any bearing on the oil consumption over the life of the engine.

I am one of the few people on this forum that DID NOT follow the Audi break-in period for the car. On the dealers recommendation I went out from the first day and to quote the dealer "have a good time and drive it like you want to". I was at 120 within the first 3 days of owning the car. I never worried about the rpm's at any time. My car does not consume ANY oil. I have never had to top it off. My oil was switched to Mobil 1 at the 5k mark and has been switched every 5k since. I am approaching 20k in 7- 7 1/2 months. I do quite a bit of driving and have never had any problems with the engine.

I plan on having the tranny oil changed at 20k and putting in Mobil 1. My tranny shifts just as smooth today as it did the day I picked the car up, but want the added protection of the synthetic oil in there.<p><a href="http://registry.audiworld.com/audi/registry/details.asp?car=3285"><img SRC="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/AudiWorldPics/2000/ttsig.jpg" BORDER=0 alt="Click for Mods"></a>
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TTelos

An auto store clerk told me that once you use a synthetic oil you cannot go back to a conventional oil. Any comments on that?