Mach V Dyno Day preliminary results [long]
04-14-2001, 07:51 PM
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Mach V Dyno Day preliminary results [long]
<img src="http://store6.yimg.com/I/machvw_1633_52784">Mach V Motorsports hosted a dyno day at <a href="http://www.alteredatmosphere.com">Altered Atmosphere</a> in Gaithersburg, MD today.
Many thanks to the Altered Atmosphere guys, who showed up bright and early to power up their <b>all-wheel drive</b> Dynojet dyno this morning. Also, thanks to Chris Ciccone (former head of our local Quattro Club) and Marc Nguyen for rustling up the participants.
We had a bunch of cars crank off runs. I tried to keep some notes. Charts will come later, after Michael feverishly feeds the scanner all those TT dyno graphs.
Anyway, here's the summary data. All figures are SAE, at the wheels.
Bill Mills, 97 A8. Stock.
HP: 222 Torque: 231@3500
Dave Berson, 00 TT 180q. APR chip, MTM exhaust.
HP: 154 T: 214@3300
Colin Cohen, 84 Sport Quattro (!!!). Stock.
HP: 235 T: 213@4550
Ellen Erickson, 01 TT 225. APR chip, Forge-Milltek exhaust.
HP: 202 T: 232@3200
Michael Rierson, 01 TT 225. MTM chip, Forge-Milltek exhaust.
HP: 209 T: 255@??
Bill Broadstreet, 01 TT 225. MTM chip, UUC exhaust.
No valid readings -- some kind of boost control solenoid problem, we think.
Greg Kahles, 01 TT 180 fwd. Stock.
HP: 161 T: 169@3250
Danilo Bodanvic, 01 S4. Autothority chip.
I missed Danilo's stats. Danilo, can you scan and send me your dyno graphs?
Aaron Geistwite, 01 TT 225. Stock.
HP: 194 T: 189@3700
Dave Wruck, TT 225. MTM chip, Forge-Milltek exhaust.
HP: 215 T: 259@3750
Chris Ciccone, 01 Lexus IS300. Intake, exhaust, piggyback fuel software. (Figures are from memory.)
HP: 194 T: 218
Now, before you hit that "reply" key in righteous indignation, please read the following:
1. These figures are AT THE WHEELS. Driveline losses account for hp and torque numbers that are lower than crank readings (which the factory reports). The Altered Atmosphere guys suggested 25% or more for AWD losses, but my experience tells me it's more like 20% for Quattro cars, and 10% or so for 2wd cars. The readings above for the stock vehicles seem to bear that out pretty well.
2. This is a Dynojet inertial dyno. The readings from it really should NOT be compared with readings on any other dyno, because they'll vary. Let's not start a pissing contest about whose car/chip/exhaust/license plate frame makes more power, because it's pretty hard to know.
3. I posted the best of two runs for the numbers above. While some cars had nearly identical numbers between their two runs, other had differences of 5% or more, for no reason we could figure out.
4. The figures above are peaks. The charts obviously tell a lot more complete story. Some of the cars had peak hp numbers that weren't much higher than stock, but had midrange numbers that were WAY higher. Also, boost spikes can cause big horsepower peaks; we saw that on the car with the suspected bad boost control solenoid.
5. I'm reporting the results as I recorded them. I don't have a particular vested interest in making any manufacturer look good or bad. I'm not trying to damage or help anyone's reputation. I just wanted to make that disclaimer.
Other observations from the day:
- Colin's Sport Quattro is just awesome. I also got to see the car in action last week at VIR. It's sort of like showing up at the pickup basketball game and finding Michael Jordan is there; I feel lucky just getting to watch the car, given how rare and how historically significant it is. Plus, the thing looks like it just rolled out of the showroom. But Colin doesn't just own it -- he DRIVES it! Thanks, Colin, for giving us a treat.
- Not everyone agreed with me, but I loved the sound of the Lexus IS300 with the free-flowing intake. It's a great straight-six howl.
- We hardly noticed the A8's run. It's quite quiet, although the car was impressive as it hunched up on the dyno rollers, then unloaded when the throttle was released. All with two kiddy seats in the back. Nice, understated luxury express transportation.
- We used a wide-range oxygen sensor in the tailpipe to record air/fuel mixtures. Pretty much ALL of the chipped cars could have made improvements in their a/f readings somewhere in the rpm range. I'm pretty convinced that custom fuel tuning (using a piggyback fuel computer) would help make additional power on most chipped cars. (Again, I'm not trying to slam any manufacturers. Hey, the power numbers speak for themselves; the chips work. But we're in the tweaking business, and I'm just saying there's room for additional tweaking :^)
- Just for reference, Mach V's own K04-powered 98 A4 1.8tq, with GIAC chip, put down 190 hp on the same dyno earlier this year. The longitudinal motor has much worse exhaust flow than the transverse layout in the TT, due to the turbo plumbing. Lucky TT owners!
Do you live in the DC/MD/VA region and feel you missed out? We'll probably hold another session in the next few months. E-mail me if you're interested.
Thanks to everyone who turned out today! The link below will have this text, plus additional charts, pictures, and information, over the next few days.
--Dan
Many thanks to the Altered Atmosphere guys, who showed up bright and early to power up their <b>all-wheel drive</b> Dynojet dyno this morning. Also, thanks to Chris Ciccone (former head of our local Quattro Club) and Marc Nguyen for rustling up the participants.
We had a bunch of cars crank off runs. I tried to keep some notes. Charts will come later, after Michael feverishly feeds the scanner all those TT dyno graphs.
Anyway, here's the summary data. All figures are SAE, at the wheels.
Bill Mills, 97 A8. Stock.
HP: 222 Torque: 231@3500
Dave Berson, 00 TT 180q. APR chip, MTM exhaust.
HP: 154 T: 214@3300
Colin Cohen, 84 Sport Quattro (!!!). Stock.
HP: 235 T: 213@4550
Ellen Erickson, 01 TT 225. APR chip, Forge-Milltek exhaust.
HP: 202 T: 232@3200
Michael Rierson, 01 TT 225. MTM chip, Forge-Milltek exhaust.
HP: 209 T: 255@??
Bill Broadstreet, 01 TT 225. MTM chip, UUC exhaust.
No valid readings -- some kind of boost control solenoid problem, we think.
Greg Kahles, 01 TT 180 fwd. Stock.
HP: 161 T: 169@3250
Danilo Bodanvic, 01 S4. Autothority chip.
I missed Danilo's stats. Danilo, can you scan and send me your dyno graphs?
Aaron Geistwite, 01 TT 225. Stock.
HP: 194 T: 189@3700
Dave Wruck, TT 225. MTM chip, Forge-Milltek exhaust.
HP: 215 T: 259@3750
Chris Ciccone, 01 Lexus IS300. Intake, exhaust, piggyback fuel software. (Figures are from memory.)
HP: 194 T: 218
Now, before you hit that "reply" key in righteous indignation, please read the following:
1. These figures are AT THE WHEELS. Driveline losses account for hp and torque numbers that are lower than crank readings (which the factory reports). The Altered Atmosphere guys suggested 25% or more for AWD losses, but my experience tells me it's more like 20% for Quattro cars, and 10% or so for 2wd cars. The readings above for the stock vehicles seem to bear that out pretty well.
2. This is a Dynojet inertial dyno. The readings from it really should NOT be compared with readings on any other dyno, because they'll vary. Let's not start a pissing contest about whose car/chip/exhaust/license plate frame makes more power, because it's pretty hard to know.
3. I posted the best of two runs for the numbers above. While some cars had nearly identical numbers between their two runs, other had differences of 5% or more, for no reason we could figure out.
4. The figures above are peaks. The charts obviously tell a lot more complete story. Some of the cars had peak hp numbers that weren't much higher than stock, but had midrange numbers that were WAY higher. Also, boost spikes can cause big horsepower peaks; we saw that on the car with the suspected bad boost control solenoid.
5. I'm reporting the results as I recorded them. I don't have a particular vested interest in making any manufacturer look good or bad. I'm not trying to damage or help anyone's reputation. I just wanted to make that disclaimer.
Other observations from the day:
- Colin's Sport Quattro is just awesome. I also got to see the car in action last week at VIR. It's sort of like showing up at the pickup basketball game and finding Michael Jordan is there; I feel lucky just getting to watch the car, given how rare and how historically significant it is. Plus, the thing looks like it just rolled out of the showroom. But Colin doesn't just own it -- he DRIVES it! Thanks, Colin, for giving us a treat.
- Not everyone agreed with me, but I loved the sound of the Lexus IS300 with the free-flowing intake. It's a great straight-six howl.
- We hardly noticed the A8's run. It's quite quiet, although the car was impressive as it hunched up on the dyno rollers, then unloaded when the throttle was released. All with two kiddy seats in the back. Nice, understated luxury express transportation.
- We used a wide-range oxygen sensor in the tailpipe to record air/fuel mixtures. Pretty much ALL of the chipped cars could have made improvements in their a/f readings somewhere in the rpm range. I'm pretty convinced that custom fuel tuning (using a piggyback fuel computer) would help make additional power on most chipped cars. (Again, I'm not trying to slam any manufacturers. Hey, the power numbers speak for themselves; the chips work. But we're in the tweaking business, and I'm just saying there's room for additional tweaking :^)
- Just for reference, Mach V's own K04-powered 98 A4 1.8tq, with GIAC chip, put down 190 hp on the same dyno earlier this year. The longitudinal motor has much worse exhaust flow than the transverse layout in the TT, due to the turbo plumbing. Lucky TT owners!
Do you live in the DC/MD/VA region and feel you missed out? We'll probably hold another session in the next few months. E-mail me if you're interested.
Thanks to everyone who turned out today! The link below will have this text, plus additional charts, pictures, and information, over the next few days.
--Dan
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04-14-2001, 08:29 PM
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These are very informative results... So let's see, if I had a chip...
01 TT 180 fwd. Stock. (My car)
HP: 161 T: 169@3250
00 TT 180q. APR chip, MTM exhaust.
HP: 154 T: 214@3300
00 TT 180q. GIAC chip, Borla exhaust.
HP: 154 T: 193@2350
I could have lower horsepower
and 24-45 more torqueys. Oh wait, but that requires an exhaust upgrade, too. Lessee, APR, GIAC or MTM chip is about $600, plus $500 for an exhaust installed all for a car I only drive on the track once a year? I feel a lot better about not having chipped, personally.
This was not meant to denigrate anyone's decision, but this limited sample seems to support my current decision to not mod. Price / performance isn't there to me.
Dyno day sounds like it was a blast! Thanks for posting the numbers.
HP: 161 T: 169@3250
00 TT 180q. APR chip, MTM exhaust.
HP: 154 T: 214@3300
00 TT 180q. GIAC chip, Borla exhaust.
HP: 154 T: 193@2350
I could have lower horsepower
and 24-45 more torqueys. Oh wait, but that requires an exhaust upgrade, too. Lessee, APR, GIAC or MTM chip is about $600, plus $500 for an exhaust installed all for a car I only drive on the track once a year? I feel a lot better about not having chipped, personally.This was not meant to denigrate anyone's decision, but this limited sample seems to support my current decision to not mod. Price / performance isn't there to me.
Dyno day sounds like it was a blast! Thanks for posting the numbers.
04-14-2001, 08:34 PM
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NO.
>I could have lower horsepower...
Read carefully. The FWD car has only about 10% drivetrain loss. So figure 179 hp at the crank (hey, almost perfect!).
The AWD cars have more like 20% drivetrain loss. So a 154 hp reading means more like 193 hp at the crank.
--Dan<ul><li><a href="http://www.machvw.com">Mach V Motorsports</a></li></ul>
Read carefully. The FWD car has only about 10% drivetrain loss. So figure 179 hp at the crank (hey, almost perfect!).
The AWD cars have more like 20% drivetrain loss. So a 154 hp reading means more like 193 hp at the crank.
--Dan<ul><li><a href="http://www.machvw.com">Mach V Motorsports</a></li></ul>