Andy W

Hi Cliff,

in respect to 911's, unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to drive such a beautiful car.

Am I right in thinking that the opposite is true of the 911, in that it is heavy at the rear, and therefore is more susceptible to sliding. Please correct me on this point if I'm bulls***ing.

I have had some awful moments in high power rear drive Fords in the wet.

If your doing 55 on a damp road surface, on a bend, and you had to stop, what would you. This question I ask myself all the time, when driving the TT in such situations.

Maybe I'm need of some illicit chemicals to calm me down.

Andy.

Andy W

I think your motives are genuine, however in reality the case you gave above is unrealistic.

A question.

Is TT stable when breaking hard in a bend?

Your answer is, you shouldn't brake hard in a bend.

This does not conform with the reality of the majority of the people who drive the TT.

I can except your argument, because I'd like to think I'm an experienced driver also, others may not share are own self assuredness. This is my point.

Jim Torongo

Well you drive faster than I thought but still not fast enough to have a problem (at least that's what I think). Koo I know it's easy to say 'don't worry' and not so easy not to. I like you have had enough of the "handling problem" because I don't think the TT has one! I have driven my car all the way to the rev limit in 5th gear. I have drive through sweepers at 100+ on the gas. I have been hard on the brakes from 80mph with the anti-lock in full swing. Hit the brakes in a 85mph corner because a mini van ran a red light, got sidways and then got straight. I am not bragging because I recognize this is all somewhat juvinile for a 48 year old man; well I like the speed. I have over 10,000 miles on my car and it handles great. So I say that if you keep your hands on the wheel, your eyes on the road and concentrate when you drive fast you are not going to have a problem with the TT you wouldn't with any other car. JIM

Steve Mikula

KOO, and anyone else with concerns for the handling of TT's - I was at TWS for 2 days pushing my 180Q hard on a 2.8 mile road course with tight turns, sweepers, off camber turns,decreasing radius turns and the whole bit, and I never had any problems, nor did the past president of thr LSR Porsche Club who is a bonified race car driver/owner. I was on the brakes hard coming in to a hard right turn after passing several cars coming off the back straight and my instructor was a bit concerned with my out of position line, but I was very confident in the car even in it's stock B-Stone tires, and after a few of these she was at ease and in fact quite impressed with the cars ability. I was riding in my car with my instructor and pressing a 911 pretty hard and it spun right in front of us, whe did just fine with evasive manuvers which included very sharp turns, and hard braking! I have never spun my car, nor come close - I have experienced 4 wheel drifting, and was in complete control! This is a very amazing car, and I love it dearly!

mne

I've driven and owned alot of 911's since the early 70's. Even raced a '71 911 RS. But my experience is with about every 911 ever made, from E's to S/SC's and Carerras and two 930's. I can always predict when a 911 is within a second or two of letting go of its rear end. Depending on the circumstance, its mostly recoverable unless the situation dictates you cannot get back on the gas to save it. And somtimes "sh*t happens" and you just out & out lose it. I've never had one on its side or top but I've had more that one up on two wheels. The TT in contrast hangs in LOTS longer, but when it lets go, it lets go suddenly, abruptly and without hint or warning or indication. The ONE time it came out on me was a TOTAL and complete surprise. I was doing 45 or so around a hairpin and saw the car ahead of me disappear and around the turn and hit his brakes. Not knowing what was ahead I decided I was cooking it way too fast into this turn if he was stopped ahead. The curve had a posted 15 or 20 mph sign as it was a downhill mountain road(Colorado remember)and this was an extreme hairpin switchback turn. I got off the gas and tapped the break once firmly... before I had any warning whatsoever I was pointed at the rock wall (2:00 & 8:00) while the front tires are still pointed at 12:00. Due to the relative slow speed I was traveling, I was able to throttle up, steer into it for jus a second then correct. It nestled back nicely without a secondary wag. All this happened so fast... I had no warning whatsoever. The entire event didnt last one second. Now I've got a 25 year history in 911's, I can perceive when ones gonna break free. But the TT is new to me... I dont know its limits yet... its threshholds, its warnings if any. But its a simple truth that I always knew just before the Porsche was gonna let go, even in the 70's. But the TT was there then gone... no perception I was gonna lose it at all. Even the brakes in the Porsche have never surprised me like that and I'd put the 930's brakes up against any car in the world. I didnt hate it... but I worry a little about it in a panic scenario or a momentary lapse (hey... I killed alotta cells in college). And accidents DO happen. I think this is still the best handling car in the world for $30k. And I dont find fault with it's handling. But I think the bottom line is it is not the most forgiving car if speed/turn/brakes are used simultaneously. Yes I know the physics... but even in terms of comparison to some other cars it will still surprise the hell out of its driver every once in awhile. Safe? yes. Fun? You damn betcha! The one I wanna be in in the event of catastrophic/sudden surprise on a turn? Nope! Theres probably room for refinement in that area with this car but it doesnt have to come at the cost of it's finesse or its nimble handling and cat-like responsiveness... thats all I'll say on the subject. This car isnt gonna kill me. I may, but it wont.

Bill

And to what speed you had to slow to? What frustrates me about this issue is that I have almost zero facts about what type of actual driving conditions have produced the rear end to break loose.

Brad Willis

Unquestionably, the SoCal Audi TT Club will be participating in a driving school, at some point, and it won't be second rate. That's assuming that I don't Lemon Law my TT and get something else. This is unlikely, for now, but my patience does have limits. I'm hoping that I can get this transmission thing worked out. If not, the lawyers may have to get involved (for interesting reading, take a look at my maintenance log in the registry).

I have had contact with Audi at a corporate level regarding events for SoCal Audi TT Club members, including driving school, and they've thrown a few ideas at me. We'll see if anything comes of it.

Cliff Melick

Hi Andy: You have it exactly right. The 911 has the majority of its weight in the rear, and a lot of it hangs over the rear axle...it is (or was) notoriously "tail happy", especially when braking in a curve (I don't know much about the newer ones, and am not sure I care to). But mne has answered the question in his post below...he said in his "spin" he had absolutlely no warning, so I suppose the modifications that Audi are proposing would function to provide the type of warning the old 911s used to give a second or two before breaking loose--not a bad thing, especially in the type of situation you described. But don't miss his post, its very descriptive and clear.

Cliff Melick

Do you think that with more experience with the TT you would be able to predict the rear end breaking loose? I sensed (perhaps wrongly) that you feel more extensive experience might provide you with a sharpened acuity for predicting this type of behavior.

DaveTT

Brad,
Sorry to hear about all your transmission problems. I've been reading this forum ever since I put a deposit on a TT225 and following your updates on fixing your transmission. Some problems I can accept and work with, but the transmission issue I feel is not just a first year car issue. Do you know if TT owners in Germany have the same reliability and transmission problems? And are the TT225 owners having any problems with the 6Speed trans? Is this why the 6 speed is being offered on the TT180? Any info will be appreciated. I’m beginning to think about getting my deposit back and get either a Boxster or M roadster, I just can’t afford to spend so much time chasing Audi to fix so many problems.