Thermostat war.....>>
01-30-2009, 10:01 AM
#22
New Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apples to Apples comparison
<center><img src="http://www.dieselgeek.com/images/DCP_7885.JPG"></center><p>
(This is a re-post from the thread below. Forgive me if this is offensive.)
I saw this and felt some research was required.
I bought an OE tstat from the VW dealer this morning and compared part numbers. The Behr part number is 1.180.87.302 and the OE number stamped on the part is 1.180.87. I just got off the phone with Behr Hella Service USA which is the US distributor for the aftermarket version of this thermostat. The .302 ending only denotes that the thermostat comes with the buna o-ring seal as the OE version does not. The Behr representative assured me that the part numbers were the same but she is phoning Behr in Germany to verify that the parts are the exact same and are made on the same exact machines to the same exact specifications as the OE branded Behr tstats. I will hopefully have that confirmation on Monday, Feb 2nd and will report here when I do.
I also took the OE branded tstat and an aftermarket Behr version and put them in a pot of water and turned up the heat as shown in the picture. Both thermostats started to open together at 185F on my thermometer and both closed again when the temp fell below 185F. I rechecked my first result by cranking up the burner again and got the same result. Both opened visually the same amount.
Due specifically to Audi TT customer demand, I changed the plastic thermostat housing in my tbelt kits to use only OE housings. They cost twice as much but its one less thing to worry about. I will only add the OE Behr tstat to my kits if it is verified that there is *any* difference at all between the OE branded one and the aftermarket version of thermostat. I mean, why pay more for the same thing? If I were to substitute the OE tstat for the aftermarket one the price of the Audi TT timing kit would need to rise by $10.00.
Any thoughts?
(This is a re-post from the thread below. Forgive me if this is offensive.)
I saw this and felt some research was required.
I bought an OE tstat from the VW dealer this morning and compared part numbers. The Behr part number is 1.180.87.302 and the OE number stamped on the part is 1.180.87. I just got off the phone with Behr Hella Service USA which is the US distributor for the aftermarket version of this thermostat. The .302 ending only denotes that the thermostat comes with the buna o-ring seal as the OE version does not. The Behr representative assured me that the part numbers were the same but she is phoning Behr in Germany to verify that the parts are the exact same and are made on the same exact machines to the same exact specifications as the OE branded Behr tstats. I will hopefully have that confirmation on Monday, Feb 2nd and will report here when I do.
I also took the OE branded tstat and an aftermarket Behr version and put them in a pot of water and turned up the heat as shown in the picture. Both thermostats started to open together at 185F on my thermometer and both closed again when the temp fell below 185F. I rechecked my first result by cranking up the burner again and got the same result. Both opened visually the same amount.
Due specifically to Audi TT customer demand, I changed the plastic thermostat housing in my tbelt kits to use only OE housings. They cost twice as much but its one less thing to worry about. I will only add the OE Behr tstat to my kits if it is verified that there is *any* difference at all between the OE branded one and the aftermarket version of thermostat. I mean, why pay more for the same thing? If I were to substitute the OE tstat for the aftermarket one the price of the Audi TT timing kit would need to rise by $10.00.
Any thoughts?
01-30-2009, 10:47 AM
#28
Rest In Peace
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 24,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It just seems that there have been a few folks that have reported >>>
cars that have run warmer with Behr aftermarket equivalent (same as the wahler) vs the OEM "Behr" product...
Please do not take it the wrong way...In no way am i accusing or trying to hurt anyone's business..In going through several t-stats with multiple timing belt changes, there has been a difference in running temps. The unfortunate thing is that you cannot plot each one directly against each other in a simple fashion as they are a PITA to get too...To me that would be a real test, not the boiling test as all that indicates is responsiveness, not actual flow of coolant as i noted in my original post.
Now if i change to the OEM/Dealer t-stat in the next 2 months and the car runs 10 deg F cooler, is that enough to show a difference? or are we back into an acceptable percentage of variance??? Not sure...
In the end, someone would need to decide if they want there car to (potentially based on what I have seen) run 10 deg F warmer than "stock". That is the owners choice...
On what to offer...maybe an upcharge to your kit is possible...i would have gone with that for another 30$ or so if it was an option...BTW- i did buy your kit Jim, so please understand it is not personal...just trying to figure out why there is a difference...
Please do not take it the wrong way...In no way am i accusing or trying to hurt anyone's business..In going through several t-stats with multiple timing belt changes, there has been a difference in running temps. The unfortunate thing is that you cannot plot each one directly against each other in a simple fashion as they are a PITA to get too...To me that would be a real test, not the boiling test as all that indicates is responsiveness, not actual flow of coolant as i noted in my original post.
Now if i change to the OEM/Dealer t-stat in the next 2 months and the car runs 10 deg F cooler, is that enough to show a difference? or are we back into an acceptable percentage of variance??? Not sure...
In the end, someone would need to decide if they want there car to (potentially based on what I have seen) run 10 deg F warmer than "stock". That is the owners choice...
On what to offer...maybe an upcharge to your kit is possible...i would have gone with that for another 30$ or so if it was an option...BTW- i did buy your kit Jim, so please understand it is not personal...just trying to figure out why there is a difference...
01-30-2009, 10:52 AM
#29
Rest In Peace
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 24,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
that and the actual amount of coolant that flows through>>
the thermostat when fully opened...one would believe it is the same, but if there is a temp difference where is it coming from??? Is it a percentage variance in manufacturing? or something else??..
To me this is more of a thing to understand why the difference if it is the same part? Clearly it works, and both Mike and Jim have sold many kits with the Behr "aftermarket" equivalent...
I was hoping to figure it out...but i may have caused more trouble then it is worth...
To me this is more of a thing to understand why the difference if it is the same part? Clearly it works, and both Mike and Jim have sold many kits with the Behr "aftermarket" equivalent...
I was hoping to figure it out...but i may have caused more trouble then it is worth...
01-30-2009, 11:08 AM
#30
Rest In Peace
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 24,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what would BTO be then Mike??? That is on the Behr "equivalent"...reads like this>>
specifically
BTT/BTO
you can just make it out in this pic...
<img src="http://images29.fotki.com/v333/photos/7/89907/7184960/IMG_2810-vi.jpg">
BTT/BTO
you can just make it out in this pic...
<img src="http://images29.fotki.com/v333/photos/7/89907/7184960/IMG_2810-vi.jpg">