TaciTrequiem

the states that honda, toyota, subaru, nissan, and others have their factories.....

TTschwing

The handwriting has been on the wall for 30 years...

You might not remember the '74 gas crisis, or the '79 one but I do.. and that's just one of the issues.. They've been loosing market share for at least that long. I worked for Honda when they built their first plant in the US. Billions of dollars later they now have many, employ lots of Happy (Non Union) workers, and build a quality product. Trust me, most serious companies, whatever they make, live and breath market share. More is good, less is bad and indicates a problem. People vote with their wallets.. There was plenty of time to fix the inevitable...

Blue TTop

of jobs and factories to other states?

TTschwing

to build motorcycles. Would the quality be the same? Could they find talented and motivated workers? Yes it was and yes they could. Ohio farm boys and gals cranked out some of the best quality cars and motorcycles in the world there. Employees in a Honda plant are called Associates...Everyone dresses in the same white coveralls from the plant manager to the guy that takes out the trash. There are no preferred parking spots. Workers were rewarded for suggesting Efficiency improving ideas. Line workers became plant managers in the process. Suppliers must jump through the highest hoops, but the desire is for quality and consistancy, not always the lowest price. The difference was MANAGEMENT PHILOSOPHY. Many of the other Aisan plants followed that lead and have been sccessful here as well. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who was smart and who wasn't..

Put it this way, I have no fear that my Pension will disappear..If I was a big three retiree I'd be nervos as a cat..

TaciTrequiem

I guess im young and foolish, but I fail to see the point in stating that every 30 years or so gasoline prices will spike? I guess every company should build cars around the 30 year cycle? By the same gasoline price logic, why hasnt harley-davidson seen so much trouble lately compared to smaller lighter bikes? You also have failed logic if you truly believe those happy honda workers would be paid as much, or have as safe working conditions if it wasnt for the big 3's unionized labor. Im not saying they havent squandered most everything the american consumer has given them. I just think the big three really shot themselves in the foot by relying too heavily on commercial sales. But im sure no one cares.

Blue TTop

Pride vs. Entitlement. Your story reminds me of that funny movie, Gung Ho. :-)

TTschwing

That was the canary in the coal mine. It's a vision of the future the big three did not have. They laughed at the 1974 CVCC engined Civic while offering us the POS's called Vega and Pinto. While many imported cars improved quality and built for a world market, the big 3 kept throwing junk at the marketplace and stupid Americans continued to buy it, albeit in fewer and fewer numbers. I'd bet that very few K car customers from the 70's are driving new Chryslers today. I was in the Motorcycle Biz for 25 years and for most of those Harley built Junk too. They were most successful at marketting an "Image" as were the big 3 in selling Hummers and increasingly bloated SUV's.. Admittedly, quality these days is much improved and I certainly give them credit for that, both to Harley and the big 3. I have a new Corvette which is a well screwed together piece. Unfortunatly, while they took their sweet time getting to that point, other world manufacturers eclipsed them big time...With quality, vision and a line-up that better matches current needs...

On the Union issue, they've been trying to unionize Honda for 30 years. The fact that they'v been unsuccesful should tell you something..The workers themselves vote on that decision..Unions, and union legacy costs have killed the big 3.<ul><li><a href="http://corporate.honda.com/america/facilities.aspx">Honda's $8.9 Billion investment in America..</a></li></ul>

TTschwing

Though the first stuff off the line was far more successful...:-)

TaciTrequiem

While in economic boom times, toyota will open up v8 truck plants, and honda will finally start work on passenger car v8's hmmmmmm sounds a bit like 3 other companies. Honda only had 2 decisive positive factors. 1 No reliance on large trucks for commercial use (housing market implosion).
2. Pensions. This will definitely change in time.

Ford actually has the BEST plant for quality in all of automobile manufacturing this year, yeah its unionized(maybe thats why ford has stated they dont need the bail out money so many times). Not to mention Ive heard lots about how great the union is for VW group. Like I said the lil 3 have squandered alot. Shame on them.
But if gm and chrysler go belly up, suppliers are going to cause just as much down time for honda and toyota as for ford.

On that union issue, can you explain why the average toyota worker at their truck plants got paid more then the average big 3 union worker did? I also dont understand how your happy about getting your pension but your scrutinizing the uaw for getting their workers a pension?

TTinCT

strong armed the big 3 for many years. Thinking that they were strategic in getting workers a pension is naive.

Honda and Toyota are smart and invest in the laborer creating an environment of positives. They created their own pension services outside of the UAW and did the smart thing. They took the American idea and beat the unions. If you put the $$$ the UAW took from the employee for their own resources (and the Big 3 mimicked the Japanese companies), and reinvested that alone into their companies they would not be in this situation.

Realize 2000$ of most GM product goes to pensions ALONE!!! Imagine that in content over cars for the last 20 yrs.....they would be class leading products...

I can tell stories of how the Solstice got built that would amaze you....a car that never would have been built had it gone through "normal" channels....