Why I like Haldex over Torsen: Round 2 (Life In The Real World)
08-02-2001, 02:11 PM
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Why I like Haldex over Torsen: Round 2 (Life In The Real World)
Aka, "Most of Life Is Not Lived on a Track"
Yesterday's example assumed the driver was intimately familiar with the turn. He/she could therefore enter the turn and negotiate it at the vehicles limit.
No one is intimately familiar with all of the turns on any given spirited drive on back roads. No one can therefore enter any turn at the maximum safe speed since we don't know what lies around the bend. As a result, we over brake on entrance which usually results in a desire (need?) to apply the throttle for acceleration between braking and the apex.
A vehicle with its front wheels turned:
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with power applied to the front wheels results rotational force off of the axis of inertia and hence, slip and understeer. The premise that this occurs can only be disputed by the fact that Audi races A4's and S4's that have longitudinally mounted engines, for which the Torsen system that Audi utilizes was designed. ^^^^^
Yesterday's example assumed the driver was intimately familiar with the turn. He/she could therefore enter the turn and negotiate it at the vehicles limit.
No one is intimately familiar with all of the turns on any given spirited drive on back roads. No one can therefore enter any turn at the maximum safe speed since we don't know what lies around the bend. As a result, we over brake on entrance which usually results in a desire (need?) to apply the throttle for acceleration between braking and the apex.
A vehicle with its front wheels turned:
\\
||
with power applied to the front wheels results rotational force off of the axis of inertia and hence, slip and understeer. The premise that this occurs can only be disputed by the fact that Audi races A4's and S4's that have longitudinally mounted engines, for which the Torsen system that Audi utilizes was designed. ^^^^^
08-02-2001, 02:31 PM
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OMG just drive the damn car and have fun...can you just have fun please...hahaha :)
you and your squashed V dub beetle and me and my Passat's cousin...will be fine regardless of what system we use...BTW doesn't subaru use a 50/50 system on there AWD impreza and WRX....Its obviously a weight control issue. You are comparing apples and oranges...I say eat the apple if you like it, and the orange if you like them...they both taste good....
08-02-2001, 02:47 PM
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Shove your poll up your *** buddy
take a step back and realize how pathetic it is to devote this much time and effort because a bunch of total strangers don't like your car as much as you do... do you stop people on the street and ask them what they think of your car? Get the hell over yourself and get a life.
08-02-2001, 02:48 PM
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Where does traction come from?
Traction comes from force on the tire perpendicular to the road. The force comes from the weight of the car and aerodynamic downforce. In our case, the latter is insignificant. More force = more traction
Yesterday you were saying that the Haldex system is superior because it will transfer torque to the rear wheels if the front begins to slip during a corner, and that this would prevent understeer. The truth is the contrary. By shifting the power to the rear, the car's weight is also shifted to the rear. This takes weight off the front, and less weight = less traction, and hence greater understeer. The Torsen system, however, would be powering the rear wheels the entire time. Thus it would be more likely to oversteer. The Haldex system, being primarily FWD, would likely have faster turnin. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
As far as fun factor, I'd say that the system with a tendency to oversteer would win. Everyone likes to play rally driver, even if they won't admit it :-)
Yesterday you were saying that the Haldex system is superior because it will transfer torque to the rear wheels if the front begins to slip during a corner, and that this would prevent understeer. The truth is the contrary. By shifting the power to the rear, the car's weight is also shifted to the rear. This takes weight off the front, and less weight = less traction, and hence greater understeer. The Torsen system, however, would be powering the rear wheels the entire time. Thus it would be more likely to oversteer. The Haldex system, being primarily FWD, would likely have faster turnin. Six of one, half dozen of the other.
As far as fun factor, I'd say that the system with a tendency to oversteer would win. Everyone likes to play rally driver, even if they won't admit it :-)
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08-02-2001, 03:01 PM
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I was going to suggest that since he stated traction arises from perpendicular force on the road ...
then perhaps traction would be lost if you were not perpendicular \\
I was also going to suggest that he floor his FWD vehicle from standing and determine whether the weight of the vehicle moves to the front or the back. By his analysis, it would move to the front.
I kind of thought that was obvious, Troy. ^^^^^
I was also going to suggest that he floor his FWD vehicle from standing and determine whether the weight of the vehicle moves to the front or the back. By his analysis, it would move to the front.
I kind of thought that was obvious, Troy. ^^^^^