MP4.2+6.0

Went to buy new tires for a D3 W12. Michelin PS2's. Not a cheap purchase.

1. When I go to check out, the TR web site pops up with a warning once I specified the exact car that the tire weight class is beyond the manufacturer fitment and do I want to reconsider. Sorry, but a. that's wrong and b. that's DANGEROUS. Specifically, the car takes a 102 XL spec tire in the 275/35 20 fitment on the car. That is exactly what the Audi sticker says on the gas lid. In turn, a PS2 in that size is exactly a 102 and XL tire in that size. The Audi spec varies per the sticker by rim size (and tire width for narrower snows), for example it can be a 99 non XL in a 255/45 18, and should be a 101XL in a 255/40 19. I tested the site with a Michelin Primacy which is only a 98 in a 275/35 20, and sure enough no pop up. Thus, not only does it direct me away from the safe and manufacturer spec'ed tire weight class for the car, but it lets me spec a substandard weight class tire, and one not even XL rated for that matter. For reference, while I have a W12, I think the tire specs are the same across the D3 A8's, including 4.2's or S8's. Wheel size is the controlling factor as I recall for the weight class on the D3's. I also tested it for the OE tire fitment from the car, Dunlop Sport Maxx's, also a 102 tire. Again, same warning and here even more erroneous, since the car was shipped with that tire to start with unlike what the message states. Nanny messages I guess are to be expected in this day and age to promote safety, but messages driving people to unsafe choices need to get terminated or fixed, like immediately.

2. The tires weren't at the warehouse nearest to me (Reno). I could get them non backordered from a different one, but then I pay the extra freight. Sorry, no dice. I pressed the bail out, lost sale button instead. That isn't the norm in my experience mail order. If the supplier has it in the wrong place and wants to sell it, their issue not mine.

Having bought from TR many times across many Audi's and recommended to yet others, I guess not this time. The usually great TR web site let me down in a couple of key ways, and when I see it promoting an unsafe result, I think I draw the line and go on to post rather than just calling it in or simply going to the next commodity seller. Yet another experience I guess too in the dangers of selling, and buying, expensive product without live sales people; reminder to me to say forget the website and get on the phone when it comes to the actual buy.

Audis or VWs 4Life

complain enough of that they waive the cost of extra shipping from a non reno location. Clearly someone botched the settings in their online database.

MP4.2+6.0

as a prior long time poster on the C5 board and now the D3 board for several years.

Since I own an obscure (but very cool...) Audi as they go, I just tried it against a higher volume Audi--the C6 A6, and even just in the lighter V6 configurations. Bottom line, same misinformation. This time, it cleared a choice that doesn't agree with ANY of the manufacturer's spec's I accessed for any wheel size. Owners should go with the original OEM load ratings and information on the car stickers from the manufacturer, not what the site is saying.

From the Audi manufacturer literature I have (available to all previously via the Bentley on line subscription), Audi specs a 99XL in 245/45 17, a 97XL in a 245/40 18, and a 99XL in a 225/55 16. So I tried it with one of the OEM tires in the 18" fitment, a Conti ContiPro Contact. Presumably the 18" one (likely an S line) is where the owner might push the car more too, all the more reason to get the load rating right. From what I have seen on the AudiWorld posts as well as some commentary on the TR site, not really a super well regarded tire to start with, and not one I think of as particularly performance either. And one reported to have some actual defects with sidewall cracking. Thus, no way a tire I would want to cut corners on with load ratings. Well, again the site kicks back a warning about too high a load rating selection when picking the 97XL one the site itself says is EXACTLY the 2009 3.0 spec'ed tire in 18's, yet has no trouble when I downgrade to a 93 non XL tire that happens to be available in the same size. In the real world, at a 93, that takes the load capacity down approx 175 pounds per corner, or 700 pounds for the car. It still nets to 5700 pounds total, but with a loaded car, hot day, high speeds and a more heavily loaded typical Audi front end, it just doesn't fit the Audi spec. Thus, the site should do exactly the OPPOSITE--clear the 97 choice and give a warning the 93 choice is BELOW the manufacturer's spec and OE fitment.

Net, two examples now where the site feedback gives the WRONG answer and suggests the buyer should consider an unsafe direction. And this one on a higher volume car with volume tires used across many Audis (including the highest volume A4's) where you would think the right data is there. Much better to delete this whole TR "feature" than feed the consumer unsafe recommendations in my opinion.

Oh yeah, and several times I got the pleasure again of paying more to get a (high volume) tire from a more remote warehouse since it was out of stock in Reno. Maybe the warehouses might want to do a bit of inventory management...

ATB

Why can't I at least special order from my local warehouse?

Gary@Tirerack.com

The site will automatically warn customers choosing XL rated tires on vehicles where standard load tires were been used as original equipment that these tires will ride more stiffly than standard load tires. The 2006 A8L W12 is one such car because there are multiple tires used as original equipment that are not XL rated such as the Pirelli P6, Dunlop 9000, Bridgestone RE040 in 18" and 19". It is true that the only tire Audi used in 20" on this car as OE happened to already be an XL tire but the same car with 18" or 19" wheels can come equipped with standard load tires from Audi.

Keep in mind that a 'spec'(OE tire) isn't always the absolute minimum load a vehicle rating that a given vehicle requires. Tires must meet or exceed GAWR (Gross axle weight rating) for both the front and rear axles in order to be safe for maximum rating load capacity of the vehicle.

Extra load tires and the standard load tires in 275/35R20 exceed the GAWR of the vehicle (found in the vehicles door jam). If these specs are incorrect, I'd be happy to reconsider the sites recommendations.

There are some cases where this warning would not be needed like in the case of a 335I sport. Even though this car comes with SL tires, they are runflat tires. Even XL rated non-runflat tires will not ride more firmly than the OEM runflats, so there are cases were the sites warnings about higher load rating meaning harsher ride aren't always correct...but they do not present a dangerous situation nor were they meant to encourage someone to put an unsafe tire on their car. Keep in mind that every order placed online is reviewed by experts, all of whom are former salesman and tire testers using specific criteria. Even if someone were to select a tire that is below the safe levels needed as determined by the car manufacturer (they provide the GAWR on the door placard) that customer would be contacted before the order was released for shipment.

You also seemed to try to make a connection between load rating and cornering/handling. I could be wrong, but if you were I should address that. It is important to remember that the tires load rating is not meant to be an indicator of a tires cornering capability. I could point out examples of XL rated tires that have worse cornering and handling than SL rated tires.

Regarding tires that aren't in stock in the nearest warehouse... We don't wish to "punish" someone for being further away from us, but sometimes items simply are not in stock in every warehouse all the time regardless of how good of a job your inventory management team is doing. A wholesaler or race team can purchase all inventory in a single order. Except for unusual situations we can normally transfer the tires to the warehouse nearest to you so that you won't have to pay extra shipping. We typically send transfer trucks between warehouses about every two weeks depending on volume and the # of transfers. When an order is placed online with a tire that is not in stock (showing special order or backorder) that order is flagged by one of our order checkers for further attention by a salesman to review options (like a transfer) then contact the customer to determine which option will work best.

I hope this helps.

Gary@Tirerack.com

See my other post (near the bottom, its kind of long) for details.

MP4.2+6.0

When I see basically the same issue on the C6 A6, it tells me the problem isn't just for an esoteric W12. The warning really didn't read to me like it was connected to the XL rating, but in any case both the W12 and the C6 specs I have call for XL and the load ratings I carefully detailed in the posts. Specifically, the warning says "The following tire you have selected has a higher load rating than the vehicle's Original Equipment (O.E.) tires. This typically results in increased ride harshness, which some customers may find undesirable." It doesn't specifically refer to the XL portion of the rating in the warning, and again here the warning is clearly erroneous in 20's against both the tire fitted to the car and against the tire labelling on the fuel door, both of which agree back to 102XL.

I can't confirm, but I expect if the C6 calls for XL (as well as the W12 in both 19's and 20's), then the A8 4.2 logically would too in the same wheel and tire sizes. I rechecked the labelling, and only the 18 spec isn't labelled XL on the car; it specifically says XL for the 19's too. Let me draw out here too that the 2006 fuel door sticker specifically calls out the tire load ratings on the D3 as part of the inflation pressure recommendations in case you aren't catching that in what I am pointing out. That is in addition and separate from the vehicle weight sticker, which on my D3 is buried up where the front door hinges are to where you can hardly read it. (For other readers, I think the SUV rollover related stickering changes later moved this tire related sticker to the door jamb area too and mandated specific colors and sticker appearance too.)

Net, I stand behind my prior suggestion I think the site is providing poor guidance as soon as it gives a pop up warning for a tire that is exactly on the tire spec per the car labelling, and fails to do so when a tire with a load rating below the labelling spec is selected. I think it should be turned off as it stands.

Finally, no I draw no conclusion between load rating and cornering/handling. I can guess it likely has a stiffer sidewall, but then I also see the weight of these tires wandering around by three pounds or more even in the same 102XL group. Thus, I read the reviews for the handling; load ratings to me = safety margins rather than handling. But, I do draw a definite connection between load rating and front axle loading (meaning weight in what I am saying, not cornering). On a front heavy Audi and assuming no ridiculous weight in the trunk like hundreds bricks or something, the front is typically where the spec gets pretty tight and leaves a minimal margin for a lot of passengers and forward placed cargo weight without a sufficient load rating. Audi presumably considered all of this when it decided the load rating spec for each tire fitment on the D3, and likewise for the C6.